Vietnamese say Bush wrong on both Vietnam and Iraq


This video says about itself on YouTube: ‘A former Viet Cong soldier tells her story. Torture by US troops. Ravages of Agent Orange. Still she is hopeful.’

It would be amusing, if Iraqi civilians and US soldiers would not continue to die by the thousands as they do day after day, to watch how George W. Bush’s Iraq-Vietnam war analogy has brought trouble to Bush apologists like Christopher Hitchens, who have wasted so much time shrilly proclaiming that such comparisons are anathema.

From Associated Press:

Bush Iraq War analogy strikes a nerve in Vietnam

HANOI, Vietnam: U.S. President George W. Bush’s latest effort to rally support for his Iraq policy has touched a nerve in Vietnam, where a previous American military intervention led to the deaths of millions of people.

In a speech to U.S. war veterans on Wednesday, Bush invoked the Vietnam War, saying that widespread death and chaos would envelop Iraq if the U.S. troops left too quickly, as he said happened when the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam three decades ago.

But people in Vietnam, where opposition to the U.S. intervention in Iraq is strong, said Thursday that Bush had drawn the wrong conclusions from the Southeast Asian conflict.

“Doesn’t he realize that if the U.S. had stayed in Vietnam longer, they would have killed more people?” said Vu Huy Trieu of Hanoi, a veteran who fought against the U.S. troops in Vietnam. “Nobody regrets that the Vietnam War wasn’t prolonged except Bush.”

Vietnam’s official government spokesman offered a more measured response during a regular media briefing Thursday.

“With regard to the American war in Vietnam, everyone knows that we fought to defend our country and that this was a righteous war of the Vietnamese people,” said Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Dung. “And we all know that the war caused tremendous suffering and losses to the Vietnamese people.”

Dung said Vietnam hoped that the Iraq conflict would be resolved “very soon, in an orderly way, and that the Iraqi people will do their best to rebuild their country.”

Although Vietnam opposed the U.S. intervention in Iraq, Dung stressed that ties between Hanoi and Washington have been growing closer since the former foes normalized relations in 1995.

In his remarks to U.S. military veterans in Kansas City, Missouri, on Wednesday, Bush said that a hasty retreat from Iraq would lead to terrible violence.

“One unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America’s withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms like ‘boat people,’ ‘re-education camps’ and ‘killing fields [which, as most people, though not Bush, know, were in Cambodia, not Vietnam],'” Bush said.

Many people in Vietnam said Bush’s comparison was ill-considered.

The U.S. could not have overcome the will of the Vietnamese people no matter how many bombs it dropped, said Trieu, the Vietnamese veteran.

“Does he think the U.S. could have won if they had stayed longer?” Trieu asked. “No way.”

The only way to restore order in Iraq is for the U.S. to leave, said Trinh Xuan Thang, a Hanoi university student.

“Bush sent troops to invade Iraq and created all the problems there,” said Thang, adding, “Suicide bombing was unheard of before.”

If the U.S. withdraws, he said, the violence may escalate in the short term but the situation will eventually stabilize.

“Let the Iraqis determine their fate by themselves,” Thang said. “They don’t need American troops there.”

Bush was unwise to stir up sensitive memories of the Vietnam conflict, said Ton Nu Thi Ninh, former chairwoman of the National Assembly’s committee on foreign affairs.

“The price we, the Vietnamese people on both sides, paid during the war was due to the fact that the Americans went into Vietnam in the first place,” Ninh said.

Israel Warned US Not to Invade Iraq after 9/11: here.

The Vietnam war and the Watergate scandal: here.

Christopher Hitchens and the Iraq war in October 2007: here.

10 thoughts on “Vietnamese say Bush wrong on both Vietnam and Iraq

  1. I’m glad that you spotted this. Thanks for doing my homework for me.
    The Vietnam analogy is probably the stupidest one Bush has made yet.
    However, it appeals to his base, who believe that Vietnam could have “won” if we only “stayed the course”.
    Bush stopped speaking to to the American public years ago, and continues to make his speeches only at venues where support is guaranteed. These speeches are geared exclusively to the 29% who will believe whatever (and I mean whatever) he says.
    Again, good job.

    Like

  2. Hi Todd, thanks for your reaction. Bush, you note, makes his speeches “at venues where support is guaranteed.” He mostly speaks for military audiences. Also among the military, by now many people disagree with Bush’s war policies; however, military discipline hinders them at speaking out like civilians might do. So, sort of “captive audiences”.

    Like

  3. Bush Gets Away with Lies, Lies and More Lies…
    Posted by: “Compañero” companyero@bellsouth.net

    Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:47 pm (PST)

    http://www.alternet.org/audits/60764/

    Bush Gets Away with Lies, Lies and More Lies in History-Illiterate
    America

    By Larry Beinhart, AlterNet. Posted August 27, 2007.

    George Bush and other Iraq War supporters have argued that if we
    withdraw from Iraq the result will be like the killing fields of
    Cambodia — an odd comparison considering that the US has direct
    responsibility for that holocaust.

    George Bush — and other Iraq War supporters — have argued that if
    we withdraw from Iraq the result will be like the slaughters — the
    killing fields — in Cambodia.

    Here are the facts:

    * The killing fields were real. The genocide against their own
    people was committed by the Khmer Rouge.

    * The Vietnamese — the Communist Vietnamese — were the people who
    went in and put a stop to it.

    * The United States then supported the Khmer Rouge.

    Here’s how that came to happen.

    The United States got involved in the war in Vietnam in an attempt
    to keep South Vietnam from going communist. Which it would have if
    nationwide elections had been held as promised.

    Cambodia is next to Vietnam. It was ruled by Prince Sihanouk. He
    attempted to be neutral. Both sides abused that neutrality.

    The North Vietnamese send arms, support and men through Cambodia on
    the “Ho Chi Minh Trail” to go around South Vietnamese and American
    forces. They also used Cambodian ports.

    The United States, which was not at war with Cambodia, officially or
    unofficially, secretly sent armed forces into Cambodia to interrupt
    North Vietnamese use of that route. In 1969, Nixon began a campaign
    of carpet bombing sections of Cambodia. Ultimately about 750,000
    Cambodians were killed by the bombings (though the numbers are hard
    to verify.)

    In 1970, while Sihanouk was out of the country, visiting Europe, the
    USSR and China, Lon Nol took over the country in a right wing coup.

    There are two stories about American involvement. The first is that
    we supported the coup, the second (in Tom Weiner’s Legacy of Ashes,
    The History of the CIA) is that it took the CIA and the United
    States by surprise. Recently declassified documents support Weiner’s
    view.

    In either case, once Lon Nol took power, the US supported him. In
    return, Lon Nol ended the neutrality, closed the ports to the
    communists and demanded that the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese
    leave the country, and let US forces openly, though secretly,
    operate in Cambodia.

    There was resistance to Lon Nol. Some of it was certainly a
    spontaneous matter of national sentiment. Some of it was certainly
    fomented by various communist interests.

    Sihanouk, in China, then allied himself with the Khmer Rouge,
    Cambodia communists, which conferred new legitimacy on them.

    Civil War broke out. Lon Nol was both corrupt and inept. In spite of
    American financial and military support, he lost.

    America left Vietnam in 1973.

    The Khmer Rouge took the capital of Cambodia in 1975. They were one
    of the most horrendous regimes in history. They practiced a kind of
    class genocide, “re-educating” and murdering anyone who educated or
    Westernized, as well as minority groups.

    In 1978, Vietnam, by then fully Communist, invaded Cambodia to put a
    stop to the Khmer Rouge and drive them out. They installed a more
    moderate and sane regime.

    The United States, the UK, and China then supported the remnants of
    the Khmer Rouge. With their help the conflict continued for another
    ten years.

    When George Bush, or anyone else, uses the Cambodian holocaust as a
    warning of what might happen if America withdraws from Iraq,
    remember the facts.

    1. Part of the holocaust in Cambodia is directly attributable to
    American bombing. The 750,000 dead. (Comparable to the number of
    Iraqis killed by American forces in this war.)

    2. The civil war that led to the victory of the Khmer Rouge came
    about, at least in part, because of America’s support of Lon Nol.

    3. The “enemy,” the Vietnamese Communists, were the ones who put a
    stop to the Khmer Rouge.

    4. The United States supported the Khmer Rouge — after their
    murders, after the genocide. That support helped a civil war
    continue for another decade. More death, more destruction.

    Larry Beinhart is the author of Fog Facts: Searching for Truth in
    the Land of Spin
    http://books.google.com/books?id=oFZXGvpzujAC&dq=&pg=PP1&ots=FwiEayt9_b&sig=TIeCYnadbOgx-YeXGz_6WcTSA0Y&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fq%3Dfog%2Bfacts%26ie%3Dutf-8%26oe%3Dutf-8%26aq%3Dt%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26client%3Dfirefox-a&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title.
    His novels include Wag the Dog, on which the film was based, and The
    Librarian which Rolling Stone described as “John Grisham meets Jon
    Stewart.”

    Like

  4. More war on the horizon
    Posted by: “Compañero” companyero@bellsouth.net chocoano05
    Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:35 am (PST)
    More war on the horizon
    By Paul Craig Roberts
    Online Journal Guest Writer
    Aug 27, 2007, 00:59

    No pullout from Iraq while I’m president, declares George W. Bush.
    On to Iran, declares Vice President Cheney. Israel is a
    “peace-seeking state” that needs $30 billion of US taxpayers’ money
    for war, declares State Department official Nicholas Burns. The
    Democratic Congress, if not fully behind the Iraq war, at least no
    longer is in the way of it. Nor are the Democrats in the way of the
    Bush regime’s build-up for initiating war with Iran. The Bush regime
    says it is going to designate part of Iran’s military — the
    Revolutionary Guards — a terrorist organization, whose bases and
    facilities Bush intends to bomb along with Iran’s nuclear energy
    sites. Three US aircraft carrier strike forces are deployed off
    Iran. B-2 Stealth bombers are being fitted to carry 30,000 pound
    “bunker-buster” bombs to use against hardened sites. Politicized US
    generals assert that Iran is providing arms and aid to the Iraqi
    resistance to the US occupation. The media are feeding the US
    population the same propaganda about nonexistent Iranian weapons of
    mass destruction that they fed us about nonexistent Iraqi weapons of
    mass destruction. A former CIA Middle East field officer, Robert
    Baer, has written in Time magazine that the Bush regime has decided
    to attack the Revolutionary Guards within the next six months.

    Remember the “cakewalk war”? Well, this time the neocons think that
    an attack on the Revolutionary Guards will free Iran from Islamic
    influence and cause Iranians to back the US against their own
    government. Lies, unprovoked aggression, and delusional expectations
    — the same ingredients that produced the Iraq catastrophe — all
    over again. The entire Bush regime and both political parties are
    complicit, along with the media and US allies. According to Baer,
    the Bush regime has given no consideration to whether Iran’s
    response to a US attack might be different than to welcome it as
    liberation. What if Iran really were to arm the Iraqi resistance
    and/or to sink our aircraft carriers? How can any government, even
    one as incompetent, delusional and unaccountable as the Bush regime,
    initiate war without any thought to the consequences? The Bush
    regime’s planned war against Iran casts light on the large increase
    in military armaments that the US is supplying to Israel. With Iraq
    in chaos and civil war, an attack on Iran leaves as opposition to
    Israel only Syria and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. Israel cannot
    finish off the Palestinians until Hezbollah is destroyed. An Israeli
    attack on Syria while the US attacks Iran would leave Hezbollah
    without supplies in the face of a new Israeli attack. The agenda
    unfolding before our eyes may be the neoconservative/Israeli/Cheney
    plan to rid the Middle East of any check to Israeli territorial
    expansion. Nicholas Burns said that the $30 billion in military aid
    was not conditional on any Israeli concessions or progress toward
    resolving the conflict with the Palestinians. Israel’s ghettoizing
    and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian West Bank proceeds apace.

    Meanwhile in America, while more money is poured into more war,
    condemned bridges collapse killing Americans who trusted their
    government to provide safe infrastructure. Devastated residents of
    New Orleans remain unaided. Financial difficulties deepen for more
    Americans as falling home prices and jobs lost to offshoring push
    more Americans into desperate straits. The US dollar continues to
    fall as the government’s war debts build up abroad. Except for the
    armaments industry, where is the gain to America in Bush’s wars?

    Before Bush invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban had stamped out drug
    production. The US invasion has brought it back. On August 22 Bush
    told the Veterans of Foreign Wars that US troops are the “greatest
    force for human liberation the world has ever known.” Tell that to
    the 650,000 dead Iraqis and the 4 million displaced Iraqis, and the
    tens of thousands of slaughtered Afghans, and the coming civilian
    deaths in Iran. Tell that to all the bombed civilians from Serbia to
    Africa who are blown to pieces in order that a US president can make
    a point. Bush goes far beyond George Orwell’s “Newspeak” in his
    novel, 1984, when Bush equates US hegemony with liberation.

    America’s hegemonic hubris is a sickness. A country that tolerates a
    war criminal while he openly plans to attack yet another country is
    definitely not a light unto the world. Paul Craig Roberts [email
    him] was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan
    Administration. He is the author of Supply-Side Revolution : An
    Insider’s Account of Policymaking in Washington; Alienation and the
    Soviet Economy and Meltdown: Inside the Soviet Economy, and is the
    co-author with Lawrence M. Stratton of The Tyranny of Good
    Intentions : How Prosecutors and Bureaucrats Are Trampling the
    Constitution in the Name of Justice. Click here for Peter Brimelow’s
    Forbes Magazine interview with Roberts about the recent epidemic of
    prosecutorial misconduct.

    Copyright (c) 1998-2007 Online Journal
    http://www.onlinejournal.com/

    Like

  5. Troops Cheer Call for Iraq Withdrawal
    Posted by: “bigraccoon” bigraccoon@earthlink.net redwoodsaurus
    Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:35 am (PST)
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/26/national/main3204570.shtml

    Troops Cheer Call For Iraq Withdrawal

    Governor’s Call For U.S. Withdrawal From Iraq Greeted With
    Standing Ovation At National Guard Conference

    SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico, Aug. 26, 2007

    (AP) A call by Puerto Rico’s governor for a U.S. withdrawal
    from Iraq earned a standing ovation from a conference of
    more than 4,000 National Guardsmen.

    Gov. Anibal Acevedo Vila said Saturday that the U.S.
    administration has “no new strategy and no signs of
    success” and that prolonging the war would needlessly put
    guardsmen in harm’s way.

    “The war in Iraq has fractured the political will of the United
    States and the world,” he said at the opening of the 129th
    National Guard Association general conference. “Clearly, a
    new war strategy is required and urgently.”

    Acevedo said sending more troops to Iraq would be a costly
    blunder.

    “By increasing the number of National Guard and reserve
    troops, we put our soldiers in danger for the umpteenth time
    since the beginning of the global war on terrorism,” said the
    governor, adding U.S. territories and states need Guard
    reserves in the event of natural disasters and domestic
    disturbances.

    Acevedo, a Democrat, has called on Washington to withdraw
    troops from Iraq in the past, but has not been a vocal critic
    of the war.

    Col. David Carrion Baralt, the Guard’s top official in the U.S.
    Caribbean territory, said Acevedo received a standing
    ovation.

    “Maybe the (officers) were not expecting those kinds of
    comments, but having a dialogue is the point of conferences
    like these,” Carrion said by phone.

    The nonpartisan National Guard Association represents
    nearly 45,000 current and former Air and Army National
    Guard officers and petitions Congress for resources.

    About 1,800 Puerto Rican guardsmen are stationed
    overseas. It was not immediately clear how many were
    deployed in Iraq.

    “The daily death toll of Americans and their allies has caused
    irreparable anguish here in Puerto Rico, and throughout the
    country. The same could be said for the people of Iraq,”
    Acevedo said.

    Like

  6. September Showdown or Sellout? The Choice is Ours!

    Congress returns on September 4th after a month’s vacation. It has been 8 months since this Congress took power with a mandate to end the occupation of Iraq and hold Bush and Cheney to the rule of law. This Congress has funded the occupation, legalized unconstitutional spying, and promised never to impeach. Will this trend continue? Can we afford to allow it to? We have killed over a million people, and the death rate is double this year what it was last year, according to the Associated Press.

    There are signs that the tide may be turning. A serious movement in Congress to impeach Gonzales helped lead to his departure. Twenty congress members of conscience have signed onto articles of impeachment for Cheney . Congressman John Conyers says he wants impeachment proponents to come to his office to urge him on ( watch the video ). And 70 congress members have committed to oppose funding the occupation, while funding a withdrawal by January 2009 or sooner.

    What can we do to push Congress in the direction of peace and justice?

    For starters, urge your Representative to join the 70 House Democrats who will only support Iraq funding for the protection and safe redeployment of all our troops out of Iraq before Bush leaves office.
    http://www.democrats.com/peoplesemailnetwork/115

    In addition, big marches are planned for the 15th and the 29th in Washington, but the pressure will be all month long. September has something for everyone!

    There are local events all over the country on the September calendar:
    http://www.democrats.com/event/2007/09/01/month/all/all/1

    Here are some of the most exciting national (and international) dates:

    Aug. 29 – Sept. 2: International Tribunal on Hurricanes Katrina and Rita in New Orleans, La.: http://www.internationaltribunal.org

    Aug. 31 – Sept. 1: People’s Poll and Peace Rally in Ft. Worth, Texas. This will be a huge protest at the time and place where the Republican Party is planning to have 20,000 delegates from throughout the U.S. and all of the Republican presidential candidates attend their Straw Poll Convention: http://www.texansforpeace.org/peoplespoll/schedule.htm

    Sept. 4: Stand watch over Congress! Join us in the gallery and STAND to show we are watching what this Congress does:
    http://www.americastandswatch.org

    Sept. 6: Call Congress! This one is for everybody. Call your representative and your two senators at 202-224-3121. Tell them: I want you to act now to end the war and occupation of Iraq. The Congress has the Constitutional right and a moral responsibility to use the power of the purse to withdraw all U.S. soldiers and contractors from Iraq on a rapid and binding schedule. Four and a half years of this war is too long – it has to end now!

    Sept. 7: Choose Peace Concert! Emma’s Revolution, Randi Driscoll, Free Radicalz, and more, in New York City:
    http://www.democrats.com/node/14104

    Sept. 8-16: Vacation for Peace in Italy!
    The people of Vicenza, Italy, have been struggling against the construction of a proposed new U.S. military base in their city. They have organized a week of camping, actions, debates, rallies, concerts and initiatives. Join them: http://afterdowningstreet.org/node/26308

    Sept. 8: The War and Rural America! Farmers and veterans meet in New York City: http://www.democrats.com/node/14102

    Sept. 11: March of the People Arrives in DC just in time for the White House’s expected sales pitch for extending the occupation:
    http://www.marchofthepeople.org

    Sept. 11: Washington, D.C.: 3 PM to 7 AM following day, all night vigil in front of Tower Guard, by the Capitol Building, with the Action Response Team reading 12,000 impeachment cards with messages from people all over the Country to impeach Bush and Cheney! Come join and read some of these incredible hand written messages.
    http://arrestcheneyfirst.org

    Sept. 12: “Tell the Truth” event outside your local media outlet: http://www.democrats.com/node/14134

    Sept. 12: 11 AM, deliver 12,000 impeachment messages to Nancy Pelosi personally. All are welcome to attend and stay for a nice chat with the Democratic Leader!
    http://arrestcheneyfirst.org

    Sept. 14-21: Days of Decision, nonviolent action at congressional offices to end the occupation of Iraq: http://www.declarationofpeace.org

    SEPTEMBER 15:

    Thousands of Americans from around the country will join together in Washington, D.C., to demand the impeachment of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush and insist on the immediate end to the occupation in Iraq. Please join us: http://www.impeachbush.org

    Thousands of Americans from around the country will join together in Washington, D.C., to demand the impeachment of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush and insist on the immediate end to the occupation in Iraq. Please join us: http://www.impeachbush.org

    Or hold a local event:

    Use the occassion of September 15 to hold an impeachment rally in your town. You’ll find big marches in Alabama, Kansas, and Florida on the calendar , and several more here . Hold your own. Visit your congress member’s offices. Hold a Honk-to-Impeach event. Hold a sit-in. Screen a video. Event resources are here: http://afterdowningstreet.org/eventresources

    Sept. 16: Lobby training in Washington, D.C., and organizing meetings, issue briefings, legislative updates, state caucuses. Grassroots America, Iraq Vets Against the War, A.N.S.W.E.R., Veterans for Peace, AfterDowningStreet, and many other organizations have planned a full day of opportunities for networking and advocacy training: http://www.grassrootsamerica4us.org

    Sept. 17: Constitution Day, Goodbye Gonzo Day, and National Truth in Recruiting Day: Iraq Veterans Against the War is launching a Truth in Recruiting campaign on September 17, 2007. IVAW chapters around the country, including Washington DC, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia, will be holding local events, but you don’t need an IVAW chapter in your area to participate:
    http://www.ivaw.org

    Sept. 18: Congressional Challenge Day: If you can be in Washington, D.C., plan to go with us to visit your Congress Member and Senators: http://www.grassrootsamerica4us.org

    Sept. 19: Protest Bush at the United Nations: If you can be in New York, plan to join us in protesting Bush at the United Nations:
    http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=3371

    Sept. 20: Rivers of Blood – A Day of Non-Violent Resistance in DC: There will be a legal and logistical briefing on September 19 at 6:30 p.m. followed by a day of nonviolent action on Capitol Hill:
    http://www.democrats.com/node/13713

    Sept. 20: Protest Racism in Jena, La. On September 20th, Mychal Bell–the first of the Jena 6 to be convicted–is scheduled for sentencing. If the District Attorney has his way, Mychal will face 22 years in prison. It’s a horrifying moment for Mychal, his parents, and the rest of the Jena 6 families. It’s also a perfect time for those who can to come to Jena, in person, and stand with them:
    http://www.democrats.com/node/14126

    Sept. 21: International Day of Peace / Iraq Moratorium Day! On September 21 and on every subsequent Third Friday, millions of Americans will break with their daily routine to take some concrete step to demand an end to the war and the return home of the troops. The hallmark will be the wearing of black ribbons and armbands, in mourning for all of those who have died in this senseless adventure:
    http://www.Iraqmoratorium.org
    Also in Spanish:
    http://moratorioirak.org

    http://www.troopsoutnow.org

    Sept. 22-29: Stop the War at Home and Abroad! Troops Out Now! Impeach Bush & Cheney for War Crimes! End All Occupations — from Iraq to Palestine to Haiti to the Philippines!

    Sept. 22-29: Encampment in Front of Congress to STOP the War (will include an Impeachment Day)

    Parallel Encampment and Demo in Los Angeles

    Sept. 25: New York City, NY: 8:30 AM to ALL DAY LONG: George Bush visits the UN General Assembly, we will not allow the time of his visit to go unnoticed! Join in marches around the city, acts of CD, and lots of other events to show the world we want the war criminal out of our City!
    http://stopbushsept25.org

    Sept. 29: National March on Washington:
    http://www.troopsoutnow.org

    ____________

    The Next War

    Through it all, we need to keep up the pressure to prevent an attack on Iran. Please sign the petition, read the latest news, and be prepared:

    http://www.dontattackiran.org

    Like

  7. Pingback: Textile art protest against the Iraq war by Adrienne Sloane from the USA | Dear Kitty. Some blog

  8. Pingback: US workers against the Iraq war | Dear Kitty. Some blog

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  10. Pingback: Poem on Vietnam-Iraq wars comparison | Dear Kitty. Some blog

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